David Shaffer: What we know
2.16.07 | On the Sunday after the Macarthur Foundation’s Games and Learning public panel discussion, the Chicago Tribune ran a front page article: “Skip the textbook, play the video game.”
It is a great article overall, and does a nice job of describing the case for games and learning. And in true journalistic fashion, the writer also included the ‘other side’ of the story—or anyway, one ‘other side’ of the story from Edward Miller, a senior researcher at the Alliance for Childhood:
“There is no evidence that video games are good at teaching problem-solving or collaboration or the other higher-order skills that these proponents are claiming.”
The problem is that this claim is simply:
FALSE
It is just not true that “there is no evidence that video games are good at teaching…higher-order skills.” In fact, the work of some of the presenters at the Macarthur panel (including my own work)—and many of the other researchers funded by the foundation’s digital media and learning initiative—shows that it is false!
The Macarthur Foundation has asked me to be a guest editor on their blog for the next two weeks, and I’m hoping to use that opportunity to move the the larger discussion past some of the myths about digital media, games, and learning—and along the way to look at why computer games and other digital tools are so important in children’s digital future.
Because here’s the truth:
We already know a lot about whether computer and video games can help children learn (short answer: they can!) and even about how they do it.
Has research already told us everything we’d like to know about digital media and learning, or everything we can know? Of course not. And a few blog posts won’t even begin to touch on all the issues.
There is a serious discussion to be had about what games can do for children and how they can do it. There are pros and cons, to be sure. But we are now past the point where simply saying “there?s no data!” adds to that discussion.
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DJ Chandler, Ph.d. (Chimera)
2/19/07
3:31am
The future of learning for some children and teens will be monumentally different than it is right now because of positive experiences with gaming. I just read Yahoo’s article on World of Warcraft to a small group of my students/gamers while they played on my LAN (that I have funded for them out of love, generosity and my drive for lived research). They listened somewhat intently to the story of the Korean couple who neglected their infant while playing WOW at an internet cafe. The infant suffocated. Also, there is the story of Stint, the major addict who is now reformed, and the psychiatrists linking MMO gaming to the future DSM.
Yes, WOW is addictive! I have even played myself all night long. Time flies when leveling up a character you have spent many hours with already. Sometimes an instance or group (maybe a raid) takes many hours. It is fun! It is rather clean and incredibly interactive especially while playing on a LAN with friends who have characters on the same server. I understand WOW and other MMOs and RPGs. Yes, other parts of one’s life can be neglected, but when you’re 14, 16 or 17, it is so much better than other addictive activities. My research is a lived daily experience. I think some of this money should be spread around, eh? I would love to have a webcam on this site or taped video streams some nights, maybe one or two nights a month or even some afternoons. Sometimes I have as many as 20 kids all gaming, all playing together without too much conflict.
The world has changed. We can’t stop that, but we certainly can offer the students and learners of the future more options than we had in the dismal past.
Mark C
2/19/07
2:37pm
I conduct research into digital media and learning, stay abreast of these topics and read this blog religiously, and I have to compliment what you and others are doing. I am an advocate of new technologies in the classroom and see them as valuable tools similar in ways the calculator and the word processor have progressed. In my profession, I have the opportunity to meet and speak with many educators across the country, at various levels and stages in their career. I also encounter many who are against such concepts and uses of technology for pedagogical purposes. (Believe me; these feelings are strong—for and against.) I believe there are many reasons for such attitudes against video games and other technologies, but a few key ones need to be changed to see real progress:
1. Articles such as the Tribune’s and others need to turn from “hype” coverage to serious pieces of journalism. I thought the article was great, but educators I know looked upon it with pessimism and disdain stating, “Great, now what? My kids are going to tell me they can learn everything they need to know from Playstation.”
2. The curriculum, and the creators of that curriculum, needs to change in their perception and application of technology: from disruptive to conducive to student learning and achievement. (Adaptation of technologies needs to happen faster than in the past; education has a poor track record of keeping up with commercial application of tech.)
3. Fear and animosity toward technology needs to be alleviated. This said, more technology that is easy, effective and applicable to real-world skills needs to be developed specifically for the classroom.
Like I stated, these are just a few of the “roadblocks” we have to face when trying to promote tech in the classroom, but with individuals such as you and I (and the organizations such as the MacArthur Foundation) we can continue to tear down some of the barriers to progress.
Thanks for writing and keep it up.
David Williamson Shaffer (University of Wisconsin-Madison)
2/19/07
10:59pm
Mark, I think you are right in suggesting that we need to move beyond hype.
What I hope to highlight in this post and some following is that the research community—and the funding community, led by Macarthur—is already doing that.
One of the things that I think is frustrating to me and to other researchers in the field is that so much of the coverage—pro and con—isn’t looking as closely as it should at what we really know, and instead plays to hopes and fears. Those are always exciting, but more interesting and important when they are grounded in data and analysis.
We have that—and will have more of it on the way. So we should be keeping that front and center in the discussion.
Gene McC
2/20/07
11:49pm
FYI - An interesting article in the local paper about Games and Surgical Skills. I haven’t tracked down the research article, just the local paper. Interesting to ponder manual dexterity vs decisionmaking under pressure… Link to the newspaper article is:
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/
pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007702200408
Research is in the February Archives of Surgery
DJ Chandler, Ph.D. (Chimera)
2/21/07
5:44pm
The article on dexterity of surgeons enhanced by 3 hours or more a week of video gaming describes one of the physical attributes gamers develop over time. That short news article also states that violence and gaming remains the problem, at least in the view of many parents (certainly the age of the gamer makes a difference here). I think it is worth our time to deconstruct what is meant by violence and how such violence translate to behavior. I have not seen any increase in violent behavior in the gamers in my research center. None. Matter-of-fact most of my gamers learn about team work and communication instead of violence. However, I do see some younger kids (maybe 3-9 years of age) who seem to exhibit more aggression. Whether or not that aggression is due to playing video games is unclear. There are more and more younger children who have aggressive behaviors in schools (my background is in special education with a speciality in behavior disorders). Why? Generally our culture uses more aggressive language, but aggressive language does not necessarily lead to aggressive behaviors such as hitting and pushing. There is a lot of evidence that demonstrates other external reasons for the increase in aggressive behavior in younger children, such as environmental toxins in food, water and air, learned behaviors from real life experiences and inadquately trained teachers or other professionals. My dissertation was a 3 year ethnographic study of SED youth in urban Los Angeles who exhibited ODD and other aggressive behaviors, so much so they could no longer be allowed in a public setting. Many of them had already been incarcerated for serious crimes or institutionalized for mental illnesses. I found through an additional 2 years of writing and research that teens responded to empowerment and autonomy by becoming more consciousness and aware of community. In other words, interactivity through learning caused the effect of less aggressive behaviors and language usage over time. I think gaming and violence, most specifically in the MMORPG genre, is less about creating violent behaviors and more about engaged learning experiences. I believe through time the “hype” about video gaming and violence will subside. The games are rated and although I think the use of inappropriate language is a real issue, especially when my young gamers (ages 10 through 19) are playing with adults, I do not think the issue of violence, at least with MMORPGs is a legitimate issue. I would be glad to submit my research findings on gaming to this blog or any other site or publication. Thank you for the interesting discussion.
Mechelle De Craene (James Buchanan Middle School)
2/21/07
10:09pm
Professor Shaffer,
In response to your statement: “One of the things that I think is frustrating to me and to other researchers in the field is that so much of the coverage—pro and con—isn’t looking as closely as it should at what we really know, and instead plays to hopes and fears.”
I wanted to pose the question: Who determines what we really know?
Kind Regards,
Mechelle : )
David Williamson Shaffer (University of Wisconsin-Madison)
2/23/07
1:55pm
An excellent question, Mechelle! I was speaking loosely, of course, as one often doesn in the blogosphere.
What I meant is that there is a growing body of research that provides empirical data testing hypotheses about whether and how people learn from playing computer and video games—and more generally from interacting with digital tools. Thus, the discussion of games and learning—in the public sphere and in academic circles—should take those results into consideration rather than being based predominantly on preconceptions, prejudices, and intuitions.
That’s a little less pithy, I think, but certainly more accurate.
Thanks for raising the issue!
DJ Chandler, Ph.D. (Chimera)
2/23/07
2:52pm
I think Mechelle’s question is quite pertinent and I look forward to Dr. Shaffer’s reply. IMHO (in my humble opinion) it is not just WHO determines WHAT we know, but HOW those designated individuals determine what kinds of knowledge we will be allowed to know. From a teenager’s perspective he or she often thinks that his or her experience and knowledge does not count to the larger society. I think it matters when we (as the WHOs of who determines what is knowledge) acknowledge that teenagers have important cognitive, complex thoughts and knowledge systems related to gaming that remain secret. IF we are allowed into that secret world, will we maintain that knowledge system’s integrity? Bottom line in all research is taken from Dr. Michael Apple’s work, (which happens to be the same institution as Dr. Shaffer), Whose knowledge? For what purpose? For whose power? I like to add from anthropology: What kinds of knowledge? I would like to know if this makes any sense to you Mechelle and what kinds of knowledge you think may be important that gamers learn from gaming.
Mechelle De Craene (James Buchanan Middle School)
2/26/07
9:37pm
Thank you Professor Shaffer for taking the time to answer my question. Also, thank you Dr. Chandler for your response too. Yes, thank you it makes perfect sense…it’s crystal. Critical Pedagogy. Let’s consider how participatory culture will change knowing as we know it…in all realms…
Piaget asserted, “The current state of knowledge is a movement in history, changing just as rapidly as the state of knowledge in the past has ever changed, and in many instances more rapidly.”
Please see the following link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAVmB5dKZZ8&NR;
Mechelle De Craene (James Buchanan Middle School)
2/26/07
10:05pm
Thank you Professor Shaffer for taking the time to answer my question. Also, thank you Dr. Chandler for your response too. Yes, it makes perfect sense…it’s crystal. Critical Pedagogy. Let’s consider how participatory culture will change knowing as we know it…in all realms…
Piaget asserted, “The current state of knowledge is a movement in history, changing just as rapidly as the state of knowledge in the past has ever changed, and in many instances more rapidly.”
Please see the following link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gmP4nk0EOE&mode=related&search;=
Kind Regards,
Mechelle : )
DJ Chandler, Ph.D. (Chimera)
3/2/07
2:59am
Mechelle,
I read your website/blog plus watched the video. Very cool. I have been involved with computing for a very long time, too, and I sometimes feel like I am the only female who is near 50, but I am not. I played a few games while an undergraduate in the early 1980s (I went to college a little later than my age cohorts), but most of the time I didn’t have time. I do think some of my kids are addicted. I think I am addicted, but I have so little time to play it isn’t a huge problem. It is harmless! And fun! I would love to be able to produce games that kids create. That would be fascinating research. Dr. Shaffer has some very cool games/interactive learning tools that I would love to try. How about it, Dr. Shaffer? Can Chimera and Mechelle’s students be beta testers for you? We would love it! What do you think Mechelle? Can we produce a game our kids create? Please?
Mechelle De Craene (James Buchanan Middle School)
3/3/07
1:22am
Oh, goodness…I’ve got quite a full plate with my sweet and tender hooligans already…plus the school year is almost over. Thank you though Dr. Chandler.
Also, Professor Shaffer…apologies for the double post…I was fixing dinner with 10 windows open and I’ve been a bit more ditzier than usual.
Dr. Chandler, thank you for your kind words about my blog. I read your website too. It looks like you have a nice place for the kids. In thinking about your situation, have you considered having a family night where the kids can game with their parents? For example, a father-son night? Perhaps, it can help to increase community involvement?
Also, was wondering are your kids modding? Also, have you considered teaching the kids animation? Blender is a free program you can download. There are many free open source resources.
Well, take care. Wishing you and the kids well.
Kind Regards,
Mechelle : )
DJ Chandler (Chimera)
3/6/07
4:19am
Hi Mechelle, I understand about not having time to do research, but we could always just email each other! Yes, my kids are modding some. I would LOVE to teach them animation. Would you like to consider some virtual teaching? (Summer maybe?)Thank you so much for the idea about Blender. I believe we are heading in the direction of a technology training center for all ages with some video streaming and high end web design. Animation would be a great asset, too. We are hoping, since we’re a nonprofit, to partner with the local city on health and wellness projects. I try to balance technology with environmental studies such as land and wildlife conservation and natural resource protection. The kids love to learn about alternative energies. We are working on getting an alternative bus for field trips. Our website is very neglected. Since we are in the process of transforming and shifting, I have postponed doing a flash site, but look for changes in the coming months. I really appreciate your postings and getting to know about you and your teaching. The idea about the fathers and sons is a nice idea and I have had a few dads along the way. Many of my kids, however, do not have fathers in their lives. Also, some of the families do not support gaming, but they do enjoy knowing their son is safe and protected. The kids who don’t have a computer or internet access at home enjoy it the most and all the kids love the social aspects of getting together on a regular basis. We’re in desperate need of funding, though, so there is a possibility that we will close down soon. I will let you know what happens…Take care, DJ
Mechelle De Craene (James Buchanan Middle School)
3/10/07
11:13pm
Dear Dr. Chandler,
Unfortunately, I cannot virtually teach over the summer. I have prior commitments that I want to do my best work on. Special Education is my top priority right now. I would be happy to answer any questions you or your students may have though via email.
Thank you also for sharing. I wanted to mirror back to you what I think I’m hearing. In terms of hopes and fears, I hear:
Hopes: (1) “I believe we are heading in the direction of a technology training center for all ages with some video streaming and high end web design.” (2) “We are hoping, since we’re a nonprofit, to partner with the local city on health and wellness projects.” (3) “We are working on getting an alternative bus for field trips.”
Fear: “...there is a possibility that we will close down soon.”
With that, and after looking at your website I wonder do you have a mission statement? I am hearing several projects in your writings. However, it is unclear what your central goal is. Perhaps, it is my misnomer. In other words, what need to you see in your community that you feel that Chimera is fulfilling or hopes to fulfil?
Recapping back to Professor Shaffer’s original post, “we already know a lot about whether computer and video games can help children learn” (e.g. problem solving). Thus, how can you transfer the ecology of games into the ecology of life? And are some hopes and fears just illusions on the journey that tend to distract us now and then from the purpose of our quest?
Best of luck to you on your quest.
Kind Regards,
Mechelle : )
DJ Chandler, Ph.D. (Chimera)
3/16/07
2:02am
Hi Mechelle,
Thank you so much for your probing thoughts. Our website is a poor reflection of what we are doing right now. We will be re-building it soon. We are moving for the third time in 4 months by April lst. Alachua is a small rural city outside Gainesville. We are growing rapidly here, perhaps too rapidly. I grew up in Los Angeles and hope (another hope) that Alachua and Gainesville do not become replicas of California. I have a MA in planning and have lived on two other continents in rural areas. The kids who come to the Chimera Center are poor, for the most part, and unresponsive to traditional schooling. Most of the kids just need a place to go. With the cost of gas and life in general, there is little to do here except use computers or play some sports. Even sports cost money. We are starting a small theater group and partnering with the children’s theater on The Outsiders soon. We do have a mission statement. I do a lot of consulting and advising. What Chimera Center’s mission is and what Chimera Planet’s mission is are a bit different, however. Chimera Center is a place where local kids can use computers for gaming and enjoy a small cafe. I do some face-to-face consulting with families. Chimera Planet is the virtual organization I hope to build based on what I learn through the center. We do have a community of people who support what we do. I partner with other adults: one is a nurse practitioner, another an alternative housing expert, and another wants a community kitchen. I believe, as do all of our adults, that a healthy life includes locally produced organic foods. The idea is to have a balance between technology and the environment. I wrote my dissertation on teaching SED teens (I am a special ed teacher, too!) with an empowering curriculum that includes research, creativity and performance. I created Chimera to continue that research except the kids here are not all mentally ill! Why might we close down? Well, we don’t have any funding. I have supported Chimera financially 100 percent and I can’t do it any longer. I would love to have some financial support. Maybe this blog will help. It is a worthy cause. May we be funded soon! Thanks again for this blog and this discussion. It has been a lifeline.
Mechelle De Craene (James Buchanan Middle School)
3/20/07
1:57pm
Dr. Chandler,
It sounds like you’ve got the weight of the world on your shoulders. Moving that many times has got to be tough for you and the kids. Kids (especially “at-risk” kids) need consistency. I’m not sure why you aren’t linking up with your community rec center? Alachua Recreation Center looks really nice. Maybe you could join up with them? Have you shared your vision and expertise with your community leaders? They are already invested and established in your community. Just an idea?
Here’s the website:
http://www.cityofalachua.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC;={ACE4FE42-5722-4953-ADAB-47E1C5206B60}
Kind Regards,
Mechelle : )
DJ Chandler, Ph.D. (Chimera)
3/21/07
11:16pm
Hi Mechelle,
You’re very sensitive. The City of Alachua is where I live. Currently the City is being sued by a group of agitators over the local elections. The City Manager, Clovis Watson, told me today that the State of Florida may be cutting back on local taxes, so things did not look good for any help, at least for the next few months. The problems for today are a lack of cash flow since we were refused an occupational license. The city and the landlords are 100 percent against a school within the historic district, for reasons unknown. As a gaming and tutoring center we could get a license in our rooms, but we must have a lease. Right now we don’t have the cash for a lease. What we are doing is the following: I am going back to public school work during the day; I am beginning film production of some PSAs (public service announcements about safety and teenagers - hopefully to sell or get grants); I am collaborating with four other nonprofits and two other businesses to write grants. We are planning an auction in the next 6 weeks to benefit all 4 nonprofits. The long term goals may be a charter high school. There is a new community college satellite just breaking ground in our small city (pop. 7000) that may be a partner. I am also starting to liquidate on ebay and try to devote some time to publishing. The truth? There is a lack of sincere and supportive giving. Some people who could pay, refuse to pay, while others cannot pay at all. We almost had one or two different benefactors, but absolutely nothing so far. In many ways I have failed. I only hope that I can learn the valuable lessons of these challenges and perform better in the future. My heart breaks every day I cannot serve the kids who need a safe, protective technology learning center. Today my computers sit unused. Tomorrow, I hope that will change. I believe this is my purpose, but I am unable to continue to give of my money. These blogs have helped me to connect to the larger community of scholars and educators who care about digital learning. Keeping positive is the most important focus for us at Chimera for now.